The New Marxist Movement: Zeitgeist Movement

When Karl Marx was writing his works and others took his work and came up with their designs for Socialism and Communism, it caught onto the masses. There is a new movement called Zeitgeist that is related to the Venus Project that seems to be getting more and more popular in online circles. When you read the ‘about’ information, you do not get a good feeling on what this organization is all about. They claim that there is a problem with the current situation and at one point claim it is Capitalism’s fault. They believe that they can rebuild society with technology and make humanity more efficient. Now this is where they draw you in and make you believe that you can agree with them, but the devil is in the details.

If you then move to “the Venus Project” you begin watching a video of a utopian space age. It shows the perfect cities with the perfect buildings, with the perfect everything else. Of course, they claim it’s not utopian. The designs of the cities is not my problem. The problem is if it wanted to be done privately then that is fine, but I can assure you they are far beyond that. They believe that there needs to be one world government. Now when you get to the F.A.Q. it begins to show its true colors.

For example:

“Social problems result from scarcity. When a few nations control most of the world’s resources, there are going to be international disputes no matter how many laws or treaties are signed. If we wish to end war, crime, hunger, poverty, territorial disputes, and nationalism, we must work toward a future in which all resources are accepted as the common heritage of all people.”

It is utopian to believe that you can get rid of scarcity. This is a nice way of saying that communal ownership is better that private ownership. Let’s look at the definition of Communism: “a political theory favoring collectivism in a classless society.” Sounds like them to me. (They do also talk about a classless society.

Another example:

“Simply stated, a resource-based economy focuses on resources rather than money, and provides an equitable distribution thereof in a humane and efficient manner. It is a system in which goods and services are available without the use of money, credit, barter, debt, or servitude.”

This is Socialism and Communism at its best. Instead of people producing and exchanging, everything is distributed. They either believe in only one of the two things. Either they believe that robots can do all the work and they can live off of it or Communism. This is where everyone works and then all the production goes into one big pot and then is equally given out. Not to mention that as Hayek put it money is in fact one of the great inventions of freedom. The poor man has more good he can acquire with money. That if there was an abolishment of money and rewards, and favors were the currency, then power would be concentrated with those with that position.

Then you know it is good when in the FAQ’s a question is “How is this different from Communism?”

Here they say the difference is that machine production will eliminate labor and that Communism didn’t do this. They also argue that Communism used police. And here comes my favor line of theirs:

“The Venus Project’s aim is to surpass the need for the use of money. Police, prisons and the military would no longer be necessary when goods, services, healthcare, and education are available to all people.”

Instead of politicians there will be computerized stuff telling people what to do. This somewhat sounds like the matrix. And here is the kicker:

“Communism has no blueprint or methodology to carry out their ideals and along with capitalism, fascism, and socialism, will ultimately go down in history as failed social experiments.”

Are you kidding me? Okay one last thing. They ask,  “is there a need for government?” Here is the answer:

“As to the need for government, only during the transition from a monetary based society to a cybernated high-technological resource based economy of common heritage would it be necessary to utilize the services of systems analysts, engineers, computer programmers, etc. They will not dictate the policies or have any more advantage than other people. Their job will be to carry out the restoration of the environment to near natural conditions as possible on land and in the sea. They will also economically layout the most efficient way to manage transportation, agriculture, city planning, and production. This too is always in the process of modification and updating to fit the needs of an ever-changing civilization. There are no final frontiers.”

If you go back and look, this was what the transition from Socialism to Communism was suppose to be like.

Okay, so I could go on about how bad this is and how it will never work and any attempt to do so will cause destruction of freedoms and personal liberties. Except, F.A. Hayek already did that with The Road to Serfdom. He wrote this in 1944. This group can pretend to be unlike Socialist but any time you design society you are a Socialist. The one thing F.A. Hayek put best in his book The Fatal Conceit is that no one designed today’s society. It has evolved through a quest for inefficiency.

This group will use human rights and freedom to attract people but in the end, if someone plans out your whole life and your cities and everything else, you are not free. They are going to argue that a few men in the world control us today. The people that interfere are governments, not individuals. It is easy to get wrapped up into this feeling of “only if.” Only if we could create this world everything would be perfect. Only if we could equalize everyone’s goods, everyone would be equal. No two people are born the same, and to try and prevent that would destroy society.

The website is here if you don’t believe me.

~PCCapitalist

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Published in: on January 28, 2009 at 12:15 pm  Comments (44)  
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  1. just like everyone else thinks inside the box open your mind or admit you dont like change have you ever been without money have you ever had to sell your stuff so you and your kids could eat i dont think so put yourself in our shoes and then and only then you will understand

  2. im sorry that you had to sell your belongings to feed your children but if you think that this is the answer to your own or anyone else’s problems you are surely mistaken. This is not a public school and wearing a uniform does not make everyone equal. In a society where your greatest supposed freedom is being able to choose anything and everything you could want, why would you even entertain such an existence? Open your eyes and think about the consequences to such an action. You work hard so that your children can have the life they want, not one that is given to them. It is the naivete of people like you, who believe that the government is all for the goodness of the commonwealth, that will destroy all that is good. i bet you actually believe that tithing to the church actually benefits the “lord” and not the blue-blooded people who lock and unlock the doors everyday. please for the sake of your children and your childrens children, OPEN YOUR EYES.

  3. As you said “are they kidding” no their not,and I agree with them. The world needs something new now and it,s going to be.Stop pushing your muck and get ready because people like you are on the way out! In fact your a fool of the first order.

  4. “As you said “are they kidding” no their not,and I agree with them. The world needs something new now and it,s going to be.Stop pushing your muck and get ready because people like you are on the way out! In fact your a fool of the first order.”

    You’re nuts. Socialism and Communism didn’t work, it hasn’t ever worked in any country, and it won’t work this time.

    The only way to give people freedom is to allow them to trade amongst themselves without force, in peace. That’s what capitalism is all about. Unfortunately we haven’t had true capitalism in the U.S., or many other countries, we’ve only had a semblance of it. But governments keep stepping in and trying to “fix” capitalism, using force against people, to try and make things “equal” or “fair”.

    The most fair thing you can do is to just allow people to have the freedom to trade with one another without force, in peace. Allow people to enter into contracts with one another, freely, in peace. There is no utopia, nothing is perfect, but giving people freedom is a great thing.

    It’s one of the things that allowed the great USA to give its people the highest standard of living in the world in the shortest amount of time in history.

    If you think forcing people to adopt your view on things is better than freedom then you’re nuts, and you’re evil.

    • I don’t want to be forced to use money or to have to sell my labor. Capitalism forces those who don’t have capital to rent themselves, and that’s NOT freedom.

  5. The only way to give people freedom is to allow them to trade amongst themselves without force, in peace. That’s what capitalism is all about. Unfortunately we haven’t had true capitalism in the U.S., or many other countries, we’ve only had a semblance of it. But governments keep stepping in and trying to “fix” capitalism, using force against people, to try and make things “equal” or “fair”.

    what do u call a company that buys another company of the same product. is that not forcing u to buy one kind of product from one person.that is not freedom.its force. so if u oun a car company (like gm) u oun like 6 diffrent car companys in one its not fair for just one person or one company to run the show. in reality only one company runs everything. maby a utopia is what we need. as humans most run from what they dont know. i personaly would enjoy this. i (even though i havent gone to college) think i am a preatty smart person. but do more reasearch on this and from what i have uncovered it is a good idea. the only thing i have to say is if u dont like it leave and dont force me or anyone else to think other than what U think. nobody can take that away. anyone who lets them be forced into beliving something they are wrong for force is not the answer look at the crusaders. killiing in the name of god. that is wrong. killing people cuz they didnt belive them or belive in god. how selfish of people to do such things. ask yourself whould u kill someone who didnt belive u

  6. As for the original post: PCCapitalist
    I have not read the book you point to, The Road to Serfdom – its now on my “to read” list. Thank you
    You posted “No two people are born the same, and to try and prevent that would destroy society” Science is in your court when you say that, and i agree. However as a species we need to understand that we are just that, a species. Science also tells us that we are killing ourselves. Do you have a better plan?

    Dominique Bryantbruce, you never made a good argument, until you can take a step back from how our world works now and understand how poisonous it really is. We will die, plain and simple. “Open your eyes and think about the consequences to such an action.” I say the same to you. I have children, I want for them a better life. I want a life where they can do ANYTHING that they want, not constrained by the bounds of money and religion. If they want to become an artist-do it! Engineer-do it! If they want to take pictures of fish all day-do it! As humans we constantly romanticize about peace and harmony. At least this movement has a solid plan. Not a bunch of praying or hope, they have a plan. At the end of your post, your true colors came out.

    Liberty Dave, your right, socialism and communism didn’t work. This isn’t either one of these. At the core of this idea, there will be no one human or group of people in charge. There will be a logical non emotional machine on to which we can bounce ideas off of. The USA has the highest quality of living at the cost of EVERYTHING; the environment, other nations and life in general. We have stepped on every ones neck to get where we are. For life to continue there must be balance. Until the current way of thinking goes away, there will NEVER be any balance.

  7. The Zeitgeist movement presentation is spot on about some of our problems, and we do need to think outside the box. Its worth considering, criticizing and drawing ideas from it.

    I agree with many observations about the problems of our current society, but have doubts with some of the solutions.

    No Democracy? I know our present democracy is a corrupt fraud but an improved alternate system(or utopian) should at least imo include a participative democratic process with a population thats educated through a process that is transparent. No ‘the-computer-said-so’ or ‘experts-say’ for me, make your case, allow criticism and let people vote on it. Secrecy with respect to Public issues is just as much of a problem as is money(or greed/corruption if you think no-money is a stretch)

    Im not part of those who foam at the mouth with Withhunting McCarthic paranoia at the mere word communism, but that system has similarities. Communism was initially a utopian ideal before it was highjacked and turned into a totalitarian oppression, whats to prevent this?

  8. Wow. “…a logical non emotional machine on to which we can bounce ideas off of.” and you are very serious? Do you realize how impractical, irrational and uneducated that makes your entire organization sound? It’s like believing you can fly or something. This appears to be a quasi-political/religious cult, but they all are. You people are going to end up like the Scientologists.

    • Jonah, I have an Associates of Science in Business and am currently in a University getting my BS in Computer Science. Computers are our invention and do their masters bidding, without arising a question.

      But that is not even what I wanted to say. Looking at a new system for society seems reasonable now that we know that communism never truly existed, Socialism and its many forms really don’t help and Captitalism helps some people at the expense of others. I am very general about them and don’t pretend to know all about them, but I know what I see and hear. The Zeitgeist Movement is the best plan, or whatever you want to call it, that I have heard of.

  9. @Jonah:
    You have never used a calculator in your entire life?

    All machines do is process programs very fast that we created for them. There is nothing impractical, irrational or uneducated about that.

    @Rick:
    Everything is Open-Source and the system will tell you why your idea is probably not going to work. It tells you that they already tried it, they can’t try it, because of lack of resources of that they will place it on the shelve for later use.

    Furthermore, there a building plans for domes where you can have live meetings centered around a hologram connecting all domes worlwide, so you can have direct democracy if necessary.
    Yes, usually that is impractical.
    Mostly the scientific way tells us how to…
    Let’s say, how to build a bridge.
    Then again, you could vote for the colour of the bridge…allthough I could think that white is better visible for planes.

    @Dominique:
    [quote]In a society where your greatest supposed freedom is being able to choose anything and everything you could want, why would you even entertain such an existence?[/quote]
    Seriously? I would do thinks that I like and that benefit humanity.

    Can there be any bigger freedom than doing what you want and like?
    If everyone can do that and you don’t restrict other people’s freedom with it?

    @Dave:
    Let me put it this way:
    What if there was capitalism without government (involvement through laws)?
    Would this prevent monopolies?
    What is the best way to make profit?

    Furthermore, how can you make money without someone else losing it?
    Besides the fact that you shouldn’t ‘make’ but ‘deserve’ money, of course.
    Even if our money problem was fixed and we wouldn’t have hilarious inflation and a steady (= non-existant) money supply, year in year out 1 million dollars in the system, you’ll still have money discrimination.

    That fictious system doesn’t even have debt, interest or taxes.
    Because allthough that would be much better, money stays power and power tends to corrupt.
    Besides that, someone could *again* install a central bank and a debt-based money supply.

    You have to understand why we started using money in the first place.
    It was a practical progression from direct trade.

    The Zeitgeist Movement is not only for abolishing money, but for trade altogether.

    The reason for this is simple, with our current state of technology we can already supply everyone in the world with their tools for survival. Yes, including enough healthy food for everyone.

    This is bound to be a huge culture shock.
    It is the end of the world – as we know it.

  10. Excellent deconstruction of the core beliefs of the Zeitgeist movement. I can see how it does sound wonderful, to those who have never read a history book. I liked the first Zeitgeist. Now that I think about it, more for the fact that it used clips from Terrorstorm, Loose Change, America: Freedom To Fascism, etc. But if you take away that.. what are you left with? An end to all nations and all sovereignty, a nullification of all human rights, and a society based around the “carrying capacity of the earth”. Essentially a carbon copy of the new world order agenda. Sad how so many people are going along with it.

  11. Educate yourself!
    Everyone needs it.

  12. Although this ZeitGeist movement certainly did have a bit of influence from the ideas of communism, it goes about it in a rather direct (and maybe unachievable) way by creating communities based on these ideas in one step.

    Instead of how communists usualy go about this, and want to progress from first gaining the political power of the state, turn it’s capitalist mode of production into a socialist mode of production, under the dictatorship of the proletariat, and then (what should have been done) gradually turn the state into a socialist democracy and later on fade out the state when a classless society is being reached.

    The socialist states (which were never communist by the way) however have almost all disapeared.
    ZeitGeist is unlike any of the existing systems (capitalism, fascisme, socialism, communism) since the ZeitGeist movement wants to take a big leap into a society without trade, and therefore without a money system. At least that is what is being proclaimed.

    Instead the society is resource based. I would guess that instead of the current faulty money system (in which money exists as debt, and can be created out of thin air), the ZeitGeist movement in fact re-establises a more durable money system which is based on the available resources. This would seem like a good step, since it is obviously a mistake to have a money system in which more money can be created then can ever be sustainably be delivered at the basis of using scarce resources.

    To me this then means that the role of money in such a society will be transformed and will be directly connected to crude materials, but is not done away with. Further the decission making political process is done away with and replaced with logistic computers taking that role. Supposedly also the role of labour would be replaced completely by machineries and robots. That aspect is very futuristic and utopian. Although certain parts of the labour process have indeed been replaced already by robots and machines, to have a whole society, even a small one, operated at the basis of automated machines and robots is quite unimaginable. Machines and robots currently still need designers, maintainers and repair, and only part of the labour process is automated. Even when we could grant the theoretical possibility of having a complete automated form of production, all this would be quite costly and unaffordable, even if only a small community were being serviced.

    To do this on a planetary scale for all of humanity is simply a step or two too unimaginable. The poorest 10% of the world population would already be satisfied having clean drinking water, housing, food, education and healthcare.

    For a more realistic viewpoint in how to deal with upcoming resources scarcity, we could better look a the “experiment” Cuba has undergone. Due to circumstances in the nineties almost all trade relations with the former easteuropean states were lost, and they had to take drastic steps in reducing the use of almost anything, from oil to pesticides and stuff.

    Still, thanks to the power of their community, they managed to survive. Automobiles were replaced by bicycles and buses, tracktors with oxes, pesticides with biological alternatives, and instead of large agricultural farms, many smaller and more labour intensive farms emerged, including urban farming.
    They grow more vegetables and have a more healthy diet, so it seems things are not that bad.

    This small documentary shows some more deatils about this:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1721584909067928384#

  13. Thinking that ultimate socialism will solve your problems and make you not poor is wishfull thinking. There are so many flaws with the Zeitgeit movent I don’t know where to begin. There is always someone who will bring the standard down. Yes I have had to sell things to eat, and been poor too but a new world order of socialism will just give the government (the one they claim won’t exist)10 times the power and nannying that goes on today in socialist countries. Shit everybody will be poorer than shit.

  14. Look, it seems to me that there are major flaws to any system that can be concieved. If we consider the zeitgiest movement to be parallel to communism, then it clearly has flaws, because it is in essence. However there was many flaws that are pointed out regarding the monetary system. Perhaps the answer isnt an entire universal reform of nations, but rather a way of controlling these issues in the monetary system, through regulations. While the word “regulations” tends to normally turn people off, its a far less extreme, and possibly mroe effective way of dealing with flaws of a capitalist system. Yes some may feel that the very roots of the system itself are flawed, but the very roots of a communist system are very flawed aswell. I believe the author of this article has pointed out some very accurate reasons as to why such an alternate system could not only be flawed, but could be fatal.

  15. I only believe in one thing that DIGNITY IS WORTH LIVING FOR.

    I believe the time is coming soon where even those that once supported this system will turn there back on it.As we continue to become more of a human sewer of shit people will become enraged ,racism will flourish like never before.People here are very materialitic and this system has showed no mercy for those that are used to having ,so the wealthy and middle class are fed up .I have never been in either of those brackets so it doesnt matter .I am already dead here .

    I am jsut wanted like many others to see when peole rebel and organize and I hope with the organization of the people that the screams and deaths of those that have oppressed people are not heard but delighted in .I have no sympathy ,pity ,compassion in my heart for those that oppresss people inequality and poverty in this country are acts of terrorism against the people of America considering there is no reason for such poverty to be here ,there is no lack of jobs we have to many jobs in America just way to many the problem is that we have way to many people that will not lower there standards it will affect there salaries and worth in the job market . would you want to wash dishes with a degree or when you have a technical skill that is valable hell no you would want to invest all you time in getting a job you fit into not every person is meant to be a bus boy a waiter or fulll time dishwasher and if ytou work those jobs your in a worser state no only do you not make enough money to pay rent you are forced into a lifestyle and with the ranks of people that are pure shit in many cases .

    Our way of life divides people .Cuban help cuban ,chinese help chinese we are all in out own little words this dog eat dog system is falling apart and falling apaprt fast our way of life and ou pay may be almost like the wages of 3rd world countries with the decline of the dollar we are going to see huge riots and much troublesome times by our next generation of kids that are going to enter a work force of trashy wages ,lack of housing and living with family till a late age ,we better of handy machine guns to the youth know let them pop some ronds in my head Id be the first to take it .I dont see shit hear this place is a fucken joke to me

  16. As was said before – designing society is by definition central planning. What if someone does not conform and starts to trade? will you shoot him? What if someone wants to live like stateless communist or capitalist – will you shoot him for not following your agenda?

  17. People,listen to yourselves!!!!!
    First: You are thinking that we humans have lived Socialism and Communism already because some countries HAVE TRIED to make these types of societies: the truth is we haven’t, so we can say they are bad per se.
    Second: This Utopian Future Society doesn’t has to eliminate democracy and free will, it doesn’t imply that a couple of old guys will be saying “do this” and “don’t do that”; it implies that society RULES ITSELF. If you pay attention, you will notice that current developed societies kinda do that already, except that they have the weight of governments and the chains of money.
    Third: Socialism and Communism are important today because of the GENERAL IDEA, the ESSENCE. All other details are right now obsolete because we live in a different world today, in which original Capitalism is mixed with Almost-Socialism.
    Fourth: Zeitgeist is about HUMANITY. To consider shooting people in this new world is absurd. And the key to feel this movement is to realize something simple: Resources > Money, which could be stated like this:
    Humanity > Individual

  18. [...] from money, and with some of their anti-statism sentiment. But their “solution”, the Venus Project is not a real solution, it is communism re-packaged to rope in the 21st century truth seeker. They [...]

  19. [...] from money, and with some of their anti-statism sentiment. But their “solution”, the Venus Project is not a real solution, it is communism re-packaged to rope in the 21st century truth seeker. They [...]

  20. [...] from money, and with some of their anti-statism sentiment. But their “solution”, the Venus Project is not a real solution, it is communism re-packaged to rope in the 21st century truth seeker. They [...]

  21. [...] move away from money, and with some of their anti-statism sentiment. But their “solution”, the Venus Project is not a real solution, it is communism re-packaged to rope in the 21st century truth seeker. They [...]

  22. [...] from money, and with some of their anti-statism sentiment. But their “solution”, the Venus Project is not a real solution, it is communism re-packaged to rope in the 21st century truth seeker. They [...]

  23. The taxpayers bailed out the banks…and capitalism is so great?!?!?!

  24. Leninism and its central planning “transitional period” look a lot like the ideas of Zeitgeist. Other forms of socialism, plus the contemporary postmodern Left and post-Left anarchism don’t, but the author of the post ignores that, probably on purpose, in an propaganda-like effort to equate communism with the “Socialist Eastern Bloc” of the Cold War.

    However Zeitgeist, in a fundamental level, looks more like a revival of the modernist political tradition of the 19th century and the Interwar period, a set of ideas and a mode of thought that could be found across the whole political spectrum, including the classical liberals who shaped modern society with the armed help of the nation-states (notwithstanding the pro-Capitalist propaganda of Hayek, that idiotically assumes that today’s society emerged wholly on its own).

    Therefore Zeitgeist is actually a step backwards, towards a time that postmodern philosophy had not yet made its appearance.

    Excuse my English, I am not a native speaker.

  25. The guy who wrote this article….not only doesn’t he have a clue about true communism, he also looked at the zeitgeist movement website while having a shower.

    Read it again and again and again until you truly understand what it really is about.

  26. [...] völlig zu, dass wir uns von Geld irgendwann abwenden müssen. Aber ihre „Lösung“, das Venus Projekt, ist nicht eine wirkliche Lösung, sondern Kommunismus neuverpackt um den Wahrheitssuchenden des [...]

  27. First of all – Thanks to PCCapitalist for starting the dialog. Whether or not we agree, it is important that we have a dialog about the world we live in.

    As for the idea that the Zeitgeist movement leans on Marxism’s, absolutely true. To dismiss the idea’s of Marxism and write that they don’t work is not helping anybody. We should rather analyze the ideology in the context of the time we live in. Communism failed in china – and Mao Zedong’s ideologies destroyed the country, but let’s ask ourselves – could that happen today? Would it be possible for someone like Mao to come to power in the world today? I doubt that this would be possible. The world has changed – technology has changed everything.

    My point is this: Do not dismiss ideologies, revisit and study them, and take from them what works in the world you live in today.

  28. Zeitgeist is Marxism. This movie shows again that the cold war has not finished yet. Why there is no word against Russia? Iraq, Iraq , Iraq…why this communist, who made the movie, do not tell why Russia invaded Georgia…Why he does not show us how the people in North Korea live. Communism is a utopia, which brings the evils of humanity. When there is freedom, there can be no equality. May be the Venus Project wants the people to became those robots. And finally: to manipulate people that Americans have made 9.11. alone is inhumane cruelty.

  29. “When there is freedom, there can be no equality.”

    Please define freedom and equality in this phrase.

  30. The very first phase of communism is war against ignorance by means of mass communication. While more and more people will make more rational informed decisions, the society as a whole will move toward communism by itself, without any pressure from anyone or any group of people.

    Equality in abundance will be the only rational choice in a highly developed society.

    I think this is also the message that Zeitgeist Movement is trying to deliver.

  31. People are not equal, even twins think differently.Liberty,brotherhood,equality – if there is freedom is impossible to have equality – тhat is why communism is utopia.People have different dreams, goals and make different decisions.Physically and psychologically they are different.Only robots can be equal.Zeitgeist is propaganda,behind which there is a lot of money.It is really funny, someone to tell us not to keep money in U.S. bank.I Will ask again:WHY THERE IS NO ONE WORD AGAINST RUSSIA(largest country in the world and winning the second World War) IN THIS MOVIE.Zeitgeist wants to turn the world against the U.S.A.trying to change the greatest tragedy of the 21st century – 9.11.

  32. Same does not equal equal.
    2 2 = 4
    Would you say that 2 2′s are the same as a 4?
    I think not.

    Total freedom is not neccesary, it is liberty and peace what we want.

  33. I just finished reading your blog, and I must say it represents everything I dislike about the internet.

    Overall it is a wonderful technology, but it’s main drawback is that it gives an equal voice to unsubstantiated, ill-conceived, and completely narrow-minded point of view. This point of view, often piffle, is then accepted as fact by many of the unenlightened lemmings who drudge through cyber space looking for simple answers to complicated problems.

    Good peer-reviewed research is what moves us forward as a society. Not the rambling point of view of a deceptively literate, but culturally stale and narrow minded idiot.

  34. You know what amazes me, besides the blatant dishonesty of this critique? (Thats standard of TZM critics) This is exactly the sort of tunnel-vision that locks us stagnantly to this failing system.

    1. TZM and TVP do not have governments in their goals, just as there’s no money, there’s no state dictating human affairs based on inherently subjective opinions, only cybernation of infrastructure is necessary,Therefore a lack of central planning which communism and socialism is based on.

    2. To say automatically that sharing resources instantly means “this = Marxism” is disingenuous. Neither socialism nor communism have a specific methods of health care, agriculture, scientific research, education (something you should look into), or anything else.

    3.Markets typically fight science when the richest within the community see it as a threat to their profits. Nikola Tesla, Edwin Armstrong, and many others have had their discoveries, inventions, and other innovations have been fought by the established system. Within a RBE, no such repression would be allowed or even tolerated because they were scientifically PROVEN to work.

  35. The members of TZM or TVP don’t even realize that they are advocating a marxist/anarchist society that doesn’t even seem to make any sense whatsoever. First of all all the resources are free to anyone also there are no laws that regulates human affairs which means that lets just take an example any Joe Schmo could just decide to build his first nuclear based rocketship just for the sake of his special interest of science and give it a go. Would just fuck things up badly don’t you think, take all the worlds population you find alot of those people and the end result would be, well you decide for yourself since you are supposed to know how awsome this society is supposed to be.

    There are alot of flaws i could point out in TVP and the most obious thing is that those “social movement groups” have almost all members
    made up of 22 year old people who think they come up with something huge. How fucking pathetic is that :/

    Don’t even try to counter argue saying that my grammar sucks because my country don’t teach english to well.

  36. money is hardly freedom. the best way to keep slaves is through the illusion of choice.

    regardless of the capitalist’s inability to allow himself to think beyond the garbage he’s been taught about capitalism and society, the simple fact is clear, all value comes from labor. however in our current economic institution, there are many people that produce no value yet consume millions or billions of dollars. this deficit in value causes poverty.

    jobs are created by human need not businesses. capitalism requires some level of unemployment to keep people tolerant of insufficient wages.

    the assumption that money is a required incentive is to assume humans are too stupid to understand the merit of their deeds.

    scarcity although being something that cannot be completely eliminated, is increased artificially by capitalism as the opulent reduces their own scarcity by increasing everyone else’s. therefore poverty is the inverse of the concentration of “wealth.”

    without societal planning, concepts like law would not exist.

    if resource management used instead of a market always lead to failure, then no business would survive as all businesses practice resource management internally.

    our modern society, it’s advancements and strides in democracy (i.e. women’s rights, abolishing slavery) are all things that would have been labeled Utopian by people that lived only a few centuries ago

  37. [...] Green Movement is an unholy alliance of Marxist utopians, Gaia worshippers, Fabian Socialists, Zeitgeist Cultists, and Davos Men.  The buzz words that anti-totalitarians should always be on the [...]

  38. Please, don’t be naive, nor cynical. Venus/Zeitgeist condemns all forms of MONETARY ruling, more than capital, money, which IS UNREAL.

  39. Bueno me da mucha pena ver que existen todavía páginas de fánaticos políticos, seguidores de una doctrina de Marx, un masón de pacotilla, que ha conseguido milones de muertes, un hombre rico, y judío (sionista), este tio sólo ha seguido unas directrices, para llegar a donde estamos llendo al Nuevo Orden Mundial de esclavización y el movimiento ZEITGEIST está llevando a cabo. Es curioso que el fundador de la orden de los Illuminati se están cumpliendo todo lo que buscó y deseó.

    Supresiónn de la familia, quedando los civiles uniformes al gobierno o estado.
    Gobierno de unidad mundial (Unión monetaria, económica, este movimiento zeitgeist, unión de los paises en uno)
    Destrucción de las monarquías (Aunque todavía aguantan algunas, pero en seguida desapareceran)
    Destrucción de la religión.

    En mi opinión la crisis de la económia y la pobreza es por los sionistas, no porque el sistema no funciona, aunque no defiendo el capitalismo porque es egoista y nada más que defiende los intereses individuales, empobreciendo a las personas como estamos. Pero la pobreza en general es por el sionismo.

    En España la familia Rotchild ahora la lotería de Navidad lo han privatizado, cuando antes era del estado y se han llevado todo el dinero y dan menos premios porque han metido mas bolas, y por si no lo sabeis los Rotchailds son una familia de Judíos alemanes.

    Cómo se puede seguir al que escribió el libro El capital cuando era un masón y sionista judío, no lo entiendo, un masón que perteneció a la gran logia escocesa y luciferiana. Era un masón de grado alto. Esta gente que ha seguido a este cabrón ciégamente que ha dejado muchas muertes por su fanatismo a este personaje que en lugar de tomarlos como referentes se lo toman muchos como un maestro y alguien al que hay que seguir. Pues dejenme decirles que el Marxismo y la lucha de clases es una paranoia, que lo único que ha conseguido son muertes y dividir y que han utilizado los grandes gobiernos para lo que le han dado la gana como siguen haciendo.
    Bueno yo no sigo a nadie, leo miro de uno de otro, y mis ideas son las que yo eligo y quiero, y pienso como me dá la gana. Por lo tanto no soy un fanático como ustedes, que los fanáticos no son sólo los religiosos y ustedes y los borregos que van detras en una manifestación también son igual de fanáticos.

    Ahora respecto al movimiento zeitgeist está muy bien que exista una economía de recursos que se acabe la moneda, eso está muy bien. Lo que no veo bien es que critiquen las emociones y sentimientos que nos mueven como personas humanas en familia. La familia es el núcleo para que unos niños nazcan sanos de mente y de cuerpo. La familia no tiene nada que ver con la religión como dicen, aunque existan grupos religiosos que quieran hacerse con la familia, la familia es la base para que exista la sociedad porque podemos ver cuantas personas diferentes en modo de pensar y actuar existen. Las familias no son sólo religiosas existen ateas, comunistas, etc. La familia es el nucleo para que exista la sociedad y la independencia, si la familia cae vamos a ver a unos niños como ahora uniformes con el estado totalitario o gobiernos, los niños naceran cautivos por el estado o gobierno. La familia es lo más natural, si vas al campo las aguilas hembras dan de comer y enseñan a sus crias, los leones protegen a sus cachorros, todos los animales tienen formas de familia y nucleos y no se juntan como dice zeitgeist que nos juntemos todos por igual, eso es antinatural. En eso esetoy en contra, ellos dicen que la emoción es estúpida cuando sómos emoción. La frialdad y la razón es buena pero hasta cierto punto. Luego unir las naiones en una sola, eso se llama imperialismo aunque una forma.
    También creo que lo que dice zeitgeist es una utopia, o por lo menos es difícil porque te cargas la diversidad cultural y eso no se puede hacer en poco tiempo. Bueno me despido. Zeitgeist en mi opinión es porque le hacen creer a las personas que si aceptan a las personas lo que quieren no les va a faltar de nada, y van a vivir bien. Y muchos llevados por eso se dejan llevar por el movimiento y hacen lo que les dice el movimiento sin cuestionarse lo que viene, una dictadura científica, carente de valores, amor y familia.

    Bueno me despido, y pido que se utilice la cabeza y no se imponga ninguna doctrina a nadie ni comunista, capitalista, de colectivismo, individualismo, etc. Señores usen la cabeza y sean libres.

    Pdt: Que como los seguidores de Jesús, de Mahoma. Por seguir también los seguidores del comunismo se han cometido las mismas muertes y barbaridades. Evoluciones con libertad.


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